gc28262
04-11 02:07 PM
And you inferred this from EB3 Mexico becoming Unavailable in month of May.
This was not inferred from Mexico EB3. I was explaining why EB3 Mexico became unavailable. Any category becoming U is nothing alarming. It just means there are no more visas available for that category for that year.
As for April 2001, it is the dreaded date for EB3-I India. The reason being all 245(i) applicants had a PD of April-2001 or earlier. If you haven't read 245(i) and its impact on EB3-I, please educate yourself regarding 245(i).
This was not inferred from Mexico EB3. I was explaining why EB3 Mexico became unavailable. Any category becoming U is nothing alarming. It just means there are no more visas available for that category for that year.
As for April 2001, it is the dreaded date for EB3-I India. The reason being all 245(i) applicants had a PD of April-2001 or earlier. If you haven't read 245(i) and its impact on EB3-I, please educate yourself regarding 245(i).
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dealsnet
04-03 01:03 PM
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=236166#post236166
feedfront
09-17 03:37 PM
When they issue RFE, does the case status online shows Card/Document production?.
My online status still shows 'Request For Evidence'. In one way, it is less disturbing than yours. Good Luck!
My online status still shows 'Request For Evidence'. In one way, it is less disturbing than yours. Good Luck!
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jonty_11
07-11 03:41 PM
Previously, the policy was that all worldwide numbers would fall down into worldwide third and then from there, fall across to the countries impacted by retrogression (i.e. India, China). The policy was recently clarified and today the unused numbers are allocated within the same preference classification.
Can you provide the source of this info? a link or something?
Can you provide the source of this info? a link or something?
more...
richi121175
01-17 02:19 PM
I tried to send you something in a private msg but your quota is fullShameless creatures, not even a single guy came and blasted me out for such comments ..! This means that I am telling the truth. You guys don't even have any self dignity left to come and face off with me.
:mad: :mad:
:mad: :mad:
alterego
07-18 05:30 PM
Looking at these figures and trying to read the tea leaves for the upcoming year is what this thread is really about. A noble if useless pursuit.
There are some visas left for this year and most will go to EB2 India and China.
The USCIS has decided to give EB2I better attention that it has got for the last year or two. About time to be honest.
However that attention will not be at the expense of EB3I. If anything it will be EB3ROW that may feel some impact. EB3ROW is oversubscribed too. Clearly not as bad as EB3I but oversubscribed nevertheless, the VB in Oct. will reflect this. If any EB3ROW feel aggrieved by all this, he/she is free to jump above EB2I in the pecking order by merely stepping up to EB2ROW. Fair is fair and Eb2I should accept that.
EB1 and EB2ROW are the real red herring in all this. Those numbers have fluctuated quite wildly in the last 5-6 yrs as one can see from the charts in this thread. The number of applicants in those categories more than anything else will be the determining factor in the progress of Eb2I in the upcoming year. Given the slowing economy, the free access EB1 and Eb2ROW have had of late and the slowdown of 140 processing etc. I think that EB2I movement prospects look fair, but not bankable given the above issues. However the number of EB2 approvals seem set to be higher next year than for the last 2-3 yrs.
There are some visas left for this year and most will go to EB2 India and China.
The USCIS has decided to give EB2I better attention that it has got for the last year or two. About time to be honest.
However that attention will not be at the expense of EB3I. If anything it will be EB3ROW that may feel some impact. EB3ROW is oversubscribed too. Clearly not as bad as EB3I but oversubscribed nevertheless, the VB in Oct. will reflect this. If any EB3ROW feel aggrieved by all this, he/she is free to jump above EB2I in the pecking order by merely stepping up to EB2ROW. Fair is fair and Eb2I should accept that.
EB1 and EB2ROW are the real red herring in all this. Those numbers have fluctuated quite wildly in the last 5-6 yrs as one can see from the charts in this thread. The number of applicants in those categories more than anything else will be the determining factor in the progress of Eb2I in the upcoming year. Given the slowing economy, the free access EB1 and Eb2ROW have had of late and the slowdown of 140 processing etc. I think that EB2I movement prospects look fair, but not bankable given the above issues. However the number of EB2 approvals seem set to be higher next year than for the last 2-3 yrs.
more...
h1techSlave
03-17 01:55 PM
People with PD having DEC 2003 and before will have fair chance as well.
Are you saying EB3-India visa date will be set as Jan 2004 by USCIS some time soon? I thought they kept saying that EB3-India dates would move very slowly only. So from the current Oct 2001 to Jan 2004 is a very long and narrow road.
Are you saying EB3-India visa date will be set as Jan 2004 by USCIS some time soon? I thought they kept saying that EB3-India dates would move very slowly only. So from the current Oct 2001 to Jan 2004 is a very long and narrow road.
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gc_check
04-04 09:09 AM
I hope not. If they ban bodyshops the cap will never run out.
And people in Real companies will be able to get the visas.
Some of the US Companies, listed in NASDAQ / NYSE also provide human resource to Fortune 50 companies and they follow the LAW as requried. I do not think the provision that would prohibit employers from hiring H-1B workers and then outsourcing them to other businesses would be in this the bill, Atleast these businesses will lobby to take it out.
And people in Real companies will be able to get the visas.
Some of the US Companies, listed in NASDAQ / NYSE also provide human resource to Fortune 50 companies and they follow the LAW as requried. I do not think the provision that would prohibit employers from hiring H-1B workers and then outsourcing them to other businesses would be in this the bill, Atleast these businesses will lobby to take it out.
more...
makemygc
07-05 10:02 AM
Strange to find that any thread which asks for contribution is pushed down the toilet within seconds whereas people are just too fond of discussing all idiotic things like..July 2 filers, July 3 filers, Will USCIS return our appllications, so on and so forth.
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msgrewal81
02-18 04:16 PM
1 - It will grant GC to people with > 5 years in US
2 - For EB skilled immigration for people with <5 years in US, it makes LC process more difficult.
Please add your views about this bill, how it might be improved and its chances of becoming a law.
P.S. I previously misread the text somewhere. This bill just eliminate H1B classification for fashion models.
2 - For EB skilled immigration for people with <5 years in US, it makes LC process more difficult.
Please add your views about this bill, how it might be improved and its chances of becoming a law.
P.S. I previously misread the text somewhere. This bill just eliminate H1B classification for fashion models.
more...
go_gc_way
01-04 04:18 PM
Posted on immigration.about.com
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ab-immigration&tid=13888
Thanks we_can, I was searching for this thread.
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ab-immigration&tid=13888
Thanks we_can, I was searching for this thread.
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pointlesswait
11-17 03:49 PM
why cant they spell out the damn rule.. instead of leaving it out for speculations...
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satysh
07-16 11:51 PM
I sent an email to Roy Beck - Founder of NumbersUSA about the false information that they present via the fax. I am expecting some reply.
This is email that I sent..........
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Roy,
I am Satish. I am one of many immigrant workers working in USA. Recently, I came across www.NumbersUSA.com website and their propaganda. I respect your service to this country and your steps towards propagating your agenda to the congress. However, when I came across the following fax content intended to faxed to the members of congress from www.Numbersusa.com, I was completely shocked to see the points mentioned in the webfax. Let me give my insight on this.
The fax content is as follows
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
My view on the above points.
1) This is true that foreign workers bring their families. However, I reject the word "guarantee" used in the later part of the sentence. Let me further elaborate on this. When a H1B worker first arrives on the American soil, the worker's spouse and children if any, are on H4 visa. For your information, these dependents of foreign workers are on H4 visa, which is a highly restrictive visa. This visa does not guarantee a social security to women and children. By social security, I mean lot more than just a social security number. In some states, this results in inability to even drive and be completely dependent. Some of H4 people that I know are highly skilled such as Phds, Doctors, MBAs, etc.
2) This is most shocking of all the points. I would love to know the source of this information. I am a H1B worker for last 4+ years. I have paid all my taxes including federal, state taxes, social security taxes, Medicare, FICA, etc. This is not voluntary deduction. All my employers were mandated to deduct just as any American citizen. I would love to debate this with you and NumbersUSA reps, because I have facts and documents to prove this. In fact, Most of H1Bs pay FICA tax, which we simply cannot get after retirement (in this case mostly 6 years on H1B). I would encourage you and NumbersUSA to contact reputed IRS expert to get more information on this. In case you don't get this information. I would be more than happy to meet you in NumbersUSA office along my documents. If some person or employer does not pay taxes being on H1B, that person is treated as tax fraudster, whom I am sure IRS handles very effectively.
3) This is also not true. In my case I had to post my labor on job bulletin board (place where I had to work) for atleast 2-3 weeks with my skills, designation and salary offered. In case if any US citizen interested in this posting, he had an open opportunity to contact my employer about his interest in the job. By the way, salaries of thousands of H1B workers are on par with that of US citizens. Given a chance, I am sure that I can prove that I am better in all aspects of IT programming than some of the best on U.S. citizens. This promotes competitiveness.
4) I would love to have actual source of this information. I know many US registered organizations that hire H1B foreign workers, who worked with fellow U.S citizens without any problems. As far as my knowledge is concerned, most of these employers are "Equal Opportunity Employers".
Roy, America is a unique country that is built on immigrants. This is probably one of the reason why America is amazing in providing civil liberties to all people irrespective of caste, color and race. Also, America has such an immense talent in every field, which makes it a leader in this competitive world.
I certainly welcome yours and NumbersUSA perspective on this email.
Both of us strive to make America more strong and competitive.
Thanks,
Satish
"It is the theory that decides what we can observe."
Albert Einstein
This is email that I sent..........
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Roy,
I am Satish. I am one of many immigrant workers working in USA. Recently, I came across www.NumbersUSA.com website and their propaganda. I respect your service to this country and your steps towards propagating your agenda to the congress. However, when I came across the following fax content intended to faxed to the members of congress from www.Numbersusa.com, I was completely shocked to see the points mentioned in the webfax. Let me give my insight on this.
The fax content is as follows
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
My view on the above points.
1) This is true that foreign workers bring their families. However, I reject the word "guarantee" used in the later part of the sentence. Let me further elaborate on this. When a H1B worker first arrives on the American soil, the worker's spouse and children if any, are on H4 visa. For your information, these dependents of foreign workers are on H4 visa, which is a highly restrictive visa. This visa does not guarantee a social security to women and children. By social security, I mean lot more than just a social security number. In some states, this results in inability to even drive and be completely dependent. Some of H4 people that I know are highly skilled such as Phds, Doctors, MBAs, etc.
2) This is most shocking of all the points. I would love to know the source of this information. I am a H1B worker for last 4+ years. I have paid all my taxes including federal, state taxes, social security taxes, Medicare, FICA, etc. This is not voluntary deduction. All my employers were mandated to deduct just as any American citizen. I would love to debate this with you and NumbersUSA reps, because I have facts and documents to prove this. In fact, Most of H1Bs pay FICA tax, which we simply cannot get after retirement (in this case mostly 6 years on H1B). I would encourage you and NumbersUSA to contact reputed IRS expert to get more information on this. In case you don't get this information. I would be more than happy to meet you in NumbersUSA office along my documents. If some person or employer does not pay taxes being on H1B, that person is treated as tax fraudster, whom I am sure IRS handles very effectively.
3) This is also not true. In my case I had to post my labor on job bulletin board (place where I had to work) for atleast 2-3 weeks with my skills, designation and salary offered. In case if any US citizen interested in this posting, he had an open opportunity to contact my employer about his interest in the job. By the way, salaries of thousands of H1B workers are on par with that of US citizens. Given a chance, I am sure that I can prove that I am better in all aspects of IT programming than some of the best on U.S. citizens. This promotes competitiveness.
4) I would love to have actual source of this information. I know many US registered organizations that hire H1B foreign workers, who worked with fellow U.S citizens without any problems. As far as my knowledge is concerned, most of these employers are "Equal Opportunity Employers".
Roy, America is a unique country that is built on immigrants. This is probably one of the reason why America is amazing in providing civil liberties to all people irrespective of caste, color and race. Also, America has such an immense talent in every field, which makes it a leader in this competitive world.
I certainly welcome yours and NumbersUSA perspective on this email.
Both of us strive to make America more strong and competitive.
Thanks,
Satish
"It is the theory that decides what we can observe."
Albert Einstein
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vandanaverdia
09-11 12:54 PM
The road to GC is not easy...
Support IV & come to DC!!
Lets get together & support a common cause...
Go IV!!!!
Support IV & come to DC!!
Lets get together & support a common cause...
Go IV!!!!
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svr_76
02-18 08:57 PM
It will not cause backlog for the undocument. Check my previous posting on this thread. The bill states that aliens adjustment by DHS sec. using this bill will not affect from the numercial visa numbers. In short- No backlog for undocumented folks whereas per country quote of existing application India, China continues...
Anyways...who said ppl are wanting to fix the legal immi. problem here...Here the interest in more in the other category.
Anyways...who said ppl are wanting to fix the legal immi. problem here...Here the interest in more in the other category.
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chanduv23
09-19 11:40 AM
These stories are scary
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_bi_ge/ny_economy_4
By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press Writer Thu Sep 18, 1:03 PM ET
ALBANY, N.Y. - A new projection shows Wall Street's meltdown will likely cost New York state up to 40,000 private sector jobs and $3 billion in tax revenues over the next two years, two state officials said Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT
The revised numbers in the snapshot of worst case estimates was done Wednesday at the highest levels of New York's state government.
The projection is worse than Gov. David Paterson predicted just Tuesday when he said the state could lose some $1 billion in revenue because of upheaval in the financial sector.
Wall Street is a major economic force in New York state, generating one-fifth of the state's revenues each year.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to comment on the fiscal analysis.
Both hits would be substantial. The total New York state budget including federal funds is about $120 billion, and the state has about 7.25 million private-sector jobs.
State officials used the model of the fiscal damage to New York after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Then, Gov. George Pataki said it was the worst financial hit to New York since the Great Depression 70 years earlier.
The new analysis includes the stock market drop, lost revenue from transactions and projected lost income tax revenue from Wall Street jobs.
Three of the five major U.S. investment banks � Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch � have either gone out of business or been driven into the arms of another bank. The two remaining banks, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, are under siege.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_bi_ge/ny_economy_4
By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press Writer Thu Sep 18, 1:03 PM ET
ALBANY, N.Y. - A new projection shows Wall Street's meltdown will likely cost New York state up to 40,000 private sector jobs and $3 billion in tax revenues over the next two years, two state officials said Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT
The revised numbers in the snapshot of worst case estimates was done Wednesday at the highest levels of New York's state government.
The projection is worse than Gov. David Paterson predicted just Tuesday when he said the state could lose some $1 billion in revenue because of upheaval in the financial sector.
Wall Street is a major economic force in New York state, generating one-fifth of the state's revenues each year.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to comment on the fiscal analysis.
Both hits would be substantial. The total New York state budget including federal funds is about $120 billion, and the state has about 7.25 million private-sector jobs.
State officials used the model of the fiscal damage to New York after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Then, Gov. George Pataki said it was the worst financial hit to New York since the Great Depression 70 years earlier.
The new analysis includes the stock market drop, lost revenue from transactions and projected lost income tax revenue from Wall Street jobs.
Three of the five major U.S. investment banks � Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch � have either gone out of business or been driven into the arms of another bank. The two remaining banks, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, are under siege.
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thomachan72
04-11 09:32 AM
Before taking up any agenda, check with IV core whether it is the right time.
If it was the right time, why wouldn't IV core initiate any action items when members are so willing to take up those ?
I think Suhail raised a verry valid point. However, to recapture unused visa numbers might not just be an administrative fix. it would require a law being passed just for that and that then becomes a whole different issue.
We know visa numbers have been wasted but can we persuade and get a majority vote on a legislation that would recapture unused visa numbers?? That to me is a mighty big task in itself.... just like raising the country limits.
I am certainly not discouraing anybody....
On the other hand, is there any legal issue involved that could be fought in a court of law?? Since there were more applications pending than the allowed anual limit why were not sufficient numbers of visas issued? was it because there was a per country limit?? If that is true they can simply say unless the per country limit is removed they cannot issue more numbers to India/china.
Personally, I therefore feel more inclined to fight for these:-
1) Taking of the per country limits (toughest one)
2) Allowing change of status application irrespective of availability of visa numbers
3) Allowing for H1b stamping from within the US
4) premium processing of I-140
If it was the right time, why wouldn't IV core initiate any action items when members are so willing to take up those ?
I think Suhail raised a verry valid point. However, to recapture unused visa numbers might not just be an administrative fix. it would require a law being passed just for that and that then becomes a whole different issue.
We know visa numbers have been wasted but can we persuade and get a majority vote on a legislation that would recapture unused visa numbers?? That to me is a mighty big task in itself.... just like raising the country limits.
I am certainly not discouraing anybody....
On the other hand, is there any legal issue involved that could be fought in a court of law?? Since there were more applications pending than the allowed anual limit why were not sufficient numbers of visas issued? was it because there was a per country limit?? If that is true they can simply say unless the per country limit is removed they cannot issue more numbers to India/china.
Personally, I therefore feel more inclined to fight for these:-
1) Taking of the per country limits (toughest one)
2) Allowing change of status application irrespective of availability of visa numbers
3) Allowing for H1b stamping from within the US
4) premium processing of I-140
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Eveready
07-05 02:44 PM
I totally agree we need money to run this website and I also agree that we Desis never pay for quality and never ever for service.
Guess it is time to change. Make it a paid website and only Members should be allowed to post queries etc. Putting advertisments on the site too is not a bad idea and I think we work some thing out.
Guess it is time to change. Make it a paid website and only Members should be allowed to post queries etc. Putting advertisments on the site too is not a bad idea and I think we work some thing out.
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Openarms
12-08 03:04 PM
Did anybody get actual response from USCIS yet??
srkamath
07-20 01:26 PM
Here you go - conversion should not impact this as the number of LC approvals remains the same:
Here are all the LC approvals for India in the last seven years.
Year, Total LC Approved, Total India
2007 85112 24573
2006 79782 22298
2005 6133 1350
2004 43582 No Info
2003 62912 No Info
2002 79784 No Info
2001 77921 No Info
2000 70204 No Info
Lets assume about 25% of pre-PERM LCs are India based on post-PERM data. Thus for fiscal 2004 (Oct 2003 thru Sep 2004) the total LC number is 43,852. Assume 25% of that to be India based on PERM data. That gives about 11,000 India LCs in 2004 alone (All EB categories combined). If you assume an average of 2.5 dependents then the number of visas required for all India EB categories for 2004 is 27,500 (11,000*2.5). The regular quota for EB2 and EB3 combined is only about 9,800. That means 17,700 visas have to come from somewhere. I dont think those many visas are remaining for this year. Be prepared to see FIFO thrown under the bus and approvals with PDs that are all over the place. Please critique this analysis without piling on. Thoughts?
delax,
There is a mistake in your numbers, thousands of cases applied for in 2005 were approved in 2006.
If you look at the 2006 PERM Data Sheet, there are 7290 Approved, India cases with receipt dates in the year 2005.
I'm assuming PD = PERM Receipt Date (correct me if i'm wrong)
Similarly for 2006 in the 2007 tables.
Therefore there are ~ 8700 - EB1, EB2, EB3 cases in 2005 and not 1350.
Here are all the LC approvals for India in the last seven years.
Year, Total LC Approved, Total India
2007 85112 24573
2006 79782 22298
2005 6133 1350
2004 43582 No Info
2003 62912 No Info
2002 79784 No Info
2001 77921 No Info
2000 70204 No Info
Lets assume about 25% of pre-PERM LCs are India based on post-PERM data. Thus for fiscal 2004 (Oct 2003 thru Sep 2004) the total LC number is 43,852. Assume 25% of that to be India based on PERM data. That gives about 11,000 India LCs in 2004 alone (All EB categories combined). If you assume an average of 2.5 dependents then the number of visas required for all India EB categories for 2004 is 27,500 (11,000*2.5). The regular quota for EB2 and EB3 combined is only about 9,800. That means 17,700 visas have to come from somewhere. I dont think those many visas are remaining for this year. Be prepared to see FIFO thrown under the bus and approvals with PDs that are all over the place. Please critique this analysis without piling on. Thoughts?
delax,
There is a mistake in your numbers, thousands of cases applied for in 2005 were approved in 2006.
If you look at the 2006 PERM Data Sheet, there are 7290 Approved, India cases with receipt dates in the year 2005.
I'm assuming PD = PERM Receipt Date (correct me if i'm wrong)
Similarly for 2006 in the 2007 tables.
Therefore there are ~ 8700 - EB1, EB2, EB3 cases in 2005 and not 1350.
alterego
09-20 11:03 AM
To summarize this briefly.
The rescue plan = Transfer the "crap" from the balance sheet of the banks to the balance sheet of the US gov't and taxpayers. The government is buying rotting potatos for cold hard cash.
Benefits are nearer term, Consequences are longer term.
Consequensces will be:
1) Bigger deficits, budget especially
2) Less Gov't investments in infrastructure, healthcare, education etc. As the money is needed to feed the interest repayments and other obligations.
3) Higher interest rates for everything from mortgages, credit cards auto loans student loans...... you name it.
4) Higher taxes, federal and state and city.
5) Lower US dollar and higher inflation.
Unfortunately for us the recklessness of the management of the economy of this decade will be felt as a drag on progress, our earnings, taxes, benefits, even stock returns for a good part of our working lifetimes. This was a sad and unnecessary development brought about by pure greed and an ineffective government.
The rescue plan = Transfer the "crap" from the balance sheet of the banks to the balance sheet of the US gov't and taxpayers. The government is buying rotting potatos for cold hard cash.
Benefits are nearer term, Consequences are longer term.
Consequensces will be:
1) Bigger deficits, budget especially
2) Less Gov't investments in infrastructure, healthcare, education etc. As the money is needed to feed the interest repayments and other obligations.
3) Higher interest rates for everything from mortgages, credit cards auto loans student loans...... you name it.
4) Higher taxes, federal and state and city.
5) Lower US dollar and higher inflation.
Unfortunately for us the recklessness of the management of the economy of this decade will be felt as a drag on progress, our earnings, taxes, benefits, even stock returns for a good part of our working lifetimes. This was a sad and unnecessary development brought about by pure greed and an ineffective government.
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